Sep 092014

This was a question asked on the Debate A Christian subreddit that I haunt. This was my answer:

Assuming you mean what happened to the mixing of the supposedly freshwater rain and the salt oceans, this is a reminder that the bible doesn’t claim the flood came only from rain. The flood water also came from “the fountains of the deep”. We don’t know what the composition of that water was.

In an article in Nature the lead author, a mantle geochemist says “… the transition zone could hold as much water as all the Earth’s oceans put together.

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

Gen 7:11 ESV

It has been speculated by YECs((YEC is a common abbreviation for Young Earth Creationist)) that some oceanic ridges are the scars where the mantle was torn allowing the deep water to burst out. There’s also been speculation the rain was caused by the violent release of deep water, jump-starting or boosting the water cycle.

There was a massive earthquake before the flood:

And on that day, the Lord caused the whole earth to shake, and the sun darkened, and the foundations of the world raged, and the whole earth was moved violently, and the lightning flashed, and the thunder roared, and all the fountains in the earth were broken up, such as was not known to the inhabitants before…

Jasher 6:11 (non-canonical but referred to directly in canon)

And a week later, the flood was upon them:

And at the end of seven days, in the six hundredth year of the life of Noah, the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

And all the fountains of the deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened, and the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

Jasher 6:13

Though the rain stopped after 40 days, the flood lasted 150 days, and it took a year for the water to recede enough to leave the boat and walk on land. All that is in the text, but this is already getting longer than most probably have the patience for.

So how did the marine life make it? Looks like most of them didn’t. 90%+ of all known fossils are invertebrate marine life.

  7 Responses to “What happened to the aquatic life during the flood?”

  1. 2 Peter 3:5 “For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:”

    This verse states that the earth (single continent landmass) originally stood in and out of water. By implication, there were massive amounts of subterranean water beneath a landmass supported on pillars. 1 Samuel 2:8 and Job 9:6 mention such pillars.

    Genesis 1:7 “And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.”

    When the earth was formed, God made a heavy aqueous layer above the atmosphere. Remnants of this layer still remain in the form of the ionosphere which is made of ionised water particles.

    Genesis 2:5,6 “and every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.”

    There was no rain cycle before the flood. The ecosystem was sustained in an oxygen rich atmosphere with high humidity which condensed on a daily cycle to water the earth. There were no extremes of temperature or seasons. These commenced after the flood. Genesis 8:22 “While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.” This is evidenced by the lack of growth rings found in carbonised and petrified trees which grew before the flood. The aqueous layer above the atmosphere shielded the earth from harmful gamma radiation and excessive heat.

    Genesis 7:11 “In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.”

    This verse sets out the two factors which caused the flood in an order of events, a rupturing of the landmass combined with the fracturing of its supporting pillars causing the ejection of subterranean water under extreme pressure. The sinking down of the continental landmass generated sufficient energy to produce worldwide volcanic eruptions caused by superheated water, together with cyclic mud, pyroclastic and lava flows in many places. Elsewhere massive ejections of water reached the upper atmosphere, condensing the upper atmosphere so that it fell as rain. This inward collapse of the earth’s mass also caused it to spin faster, producing an increased number of days per year from its original 360. The eccentricity of the collapse also produced the earth’s axial progression or wobble. Its axis had previously been stable.

    The amount of sedimentation caused by these events is in evidence all over the earth. Its effect on marine life would have been binary. The release of suspended sediments into the sea would have clogged the gills of fish, killing them by asphyxiation. The massive tidal surges caused by the sinking of the fragmented landmass swept them overland where they were buried in sedimentary layers. Obviously there was a greater chance of survival for a remnant of marine life during these events than for any air breathing creatures. We can only speculate as to how saline the sea was before the flood. The Bible states that rivers existed before the flood, so presumably a certain amount of salt would have accumulated in the sea during the preceding period.

    The Bible describes enormous abundance of marine life in Genesis 1:20,21. The sea literally teemed with life forms of all kinds which have unlikely been seen in such abundance or variety since. It would appear that the sea was more densely populated with life forms than the continental landmass. What we see in the fossil record only reflects those which were buried in sediment. The word “abundantly” is not applied to any other animal life forms than marine life at the time of their creation. The spawned eggs of many such creatures would have survived better than the adults during the flood and this kind of procreation is probably what saved a multitude of marine life species.

    • Outstanding info. What do you think caused the original rupture? Hovind was fond of the asteroid theory, and that’s tilted my thinking in that direction.

  2. I have no certainty of this. I have been looking at some things which Michael Tellinger has turned up. He’s got some weird ideas which I wouldn’t recommend anyone to take on board, but what he has discovered in terms of archaeological evidence is very interesting. Unfortunately he appears to be the only person investigating the phenomenon which he has discovered in his own “back yard” in South Africa. Perhaps some Christian scientific investigators should be looking at this.

    He has been looking into the nature of ancient stone structures which are dotted around a large part of the southern African subcontinent. They have the appearance of stone dwellings, where visible, but with no evidence that they ever had roofs and having no apertures in them (doorways, etc). They are all constructed of a particular type of stone called Hornfels or Ringstone, so called because if you strike it, it rings like a bell. This stone has a very high silica content and is very hard. It cannot be cut to shape. If worked it will shatter. It is a very good conductor of sound and such pieces as have been tested are found to ring and resonate at specific notes and frequencies. The structures which are comprised of this stone are “dry laid” without mortar and the shapes of the stones appear to be shaped not so much for their fit but rather for their tonal or resonant qualities. For the most part, they are elongated and somewhat flat, more bulbous at one end than at the other. They are not excessively large or heavy, probably no more than 25kg in weight on average. Many are much lighter. They appear to have been shaped by melting and moulding in order to obtain specific tonal qualities unless some other kind of high temperature means of cutting them was used.

    The structures themselves appear quite irregular in design but careful analysis shows that very precise geometry was employed in their construction and alignment. Most are completely and others partially buried in soil and sediment deposited by the flood. Aerial observation has only recently revealed the scale and extent of these structures. They cover a massive geographical area in vast arrays which extend outwards from central structures like spiders webs interconnecting with each other over thousands of square kilometres of South Africa, Botswana and elsewhere in the subcontinent. An estimate based on analysis of Google earth pictures puts them at between 10 and 20 million in number!

    Scientific analysis of these structures reveals some remarkable results. Sound and electromagnetic fields within them can be measured into the MHz and GHz ranges. Accurate GPS readings from within them are impossible. The index temperature of the earth calculated to 300ft below them rises considerably compared to the ground outside, in some extreme cases so high as would otherwise indicate volcanic activity beneath. Each structure appears to generate a complex vortex pattern of energy fields resulting in a perpendicular “beam” of energy rising upwards from the earth and, presumably, extending downwards also.

    It appears that these structural arrays are designed to operate on the same kind of resonance technology as was explored by Nikola Tesla, using the earth’s natural energy. It can only be speculated as to their potential power before they were, for the most part, buried and damped by soil and sediment. Even in this condition they still generate considerable and measurable energy fields.

    In conjunction with his scientific analysis, Michael Tellinger has also been examining ancient Sumerian records relating to the activities of the Annunaki. Leaving aside anything that could be construed as satanic propaganda and lies from a Biblical perspective, certain details leap out from his studies. They centre around an apparent quest of the Annunaki for gold and refer to an area of the earth which is shaped like a human heart, which roughly describes the African subcontinent, an area which we know to be rich in gold seams as well as other precious stone and mineral deposits. It could be speculated that this area is what the Bible refers to as the Land of Havilah in Genesis. The Sumerian writings go into great detail about how the Annunaki engineered a species of immensely strong humanoid hybrids to work extracting gold from the earth. They also make reference to how they built “the earth splitter” to fracture the earth and to reveal the gold seams below. In one of his presentations, Tellinger shows a photograph of a particular Ringstone structure and makes the comment “This is the one which is reputedly responsible for the loss of Atlantis, something went wrong here”. Wild speculation? Perhaps, but maybe he’s stumbled on something he never went looking for. By his own admission, he only started looking into the whole phenomenon with a mild curiosity because these things were in the near vicinity to where he lives in South Africa.

    How does all this square with what the Bible says about the flood?

    “And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.” Genesis 6:13. I checked the word “violence” in the Strong’s Hebrew dictionary (H2555) and found “damage” listed among the alternative meanings.

    Does what God said to Noah indicate that he actively intervened in sending the flood or was it by setting a limit of grace upon the time before the activity of man in collusion with rebellious angels brought about a destructive release of the very forces which God had created in potential in the earth and for which He took full responsibility?

    It should be remembered that God decreed the dominion of mankind over all the earth in Genesis 1:26 before they were ever created. The actions of man there onwards would be based either in obedience to God’s true counsel or satan’s deceptive lies but man acted as a free agent in the earth in either case. The only instance of the transgression of this decree is cited in Genesis 6:2 by the sons of God who went down uninvited and took wives of the daughters of men.

    All instances of God’s interventive power in the earth are in conjunction with the obedience of a man who will obey Him. The flood was no exception for we read, “By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; BY THE WHICH HE CONDEMNED THE WORLD, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.” Hebrews 11:7

    As I said at the outset, I’m not jumping to any conclusions here but merely laying out the backbone of things which I have been considering in evidence. I’m more inclined to believe that the things which happen in the earth are as a direct result of man’s actions, either through disobedience or obedience to God or, in some cases like the flood, a combination of both by different parties. I don’t think God chucked a rock at the earth in this instance or, indeed, does anything without involving someone or some people of faith to catalyse His intervention.

  3. I’m not sure how this might progress from here as yet. I do have other thoughts on this subject which I haven’t written here. As I said in my last reply, I don’t know of any Christian scientific investigators who have come up with anything more than speculation about what actually triggered the flood. On the alternative side, an asteroid strike couldn’t be deemed an unlikely cause either but there’s something about how God said “The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence (or is it, damage?) through them;” It’s a bit like saying “I can see the destruction of all flesh coming because of the wholesale damage that’s being done to the earth by them”. Perhaps just let the blog roll on for now and see where it goes for the time being. It gives others the opportunity to give any insights they may have.

    • That’s the thing… I started posting halfway done items because they were better than leaving it blank… I’d rather raise the topics and at least force it to exist. Then later if I go back and flesh it out, even better.

      The info you have presented here belongs where it will be seen by someone perusing the main page. That’s my opinion, at least. You write some great stuff. Maybe you want to say more that what you’re willing to put down at the moment, but you know things and have done some speculation that’s more that good enough to start lighting mental fires.

      Start scattering seed. You never know which one will grow.

  4. I quite agree with your main page ideas, Troy but I don’t know how to present stuff there properly yet. Perhaps you could clue me up a bit on it. In the meantime I think these comment threads give me some interesting prompts with subject matter and the opportunity to compose some written material far from the madding facebook crowd!

    Phew! I’ll tell you, folks get pretty frantic on a friday evening. Perhaps folks dump there accumulated week long baggage there after taking it at work, I don’t know. I ended up leaving a few of them to it earlier and probably a good job too! When I got back home from my son’s house just now, the post I’d been following had got pulled. I hope things didn’t go too far over the top cos they were mobbing the guy who put it up like a pack of hyenas when I left!

    But back on main page matters, I think that the main page could serve as a good brief for anyone who might get guested onto the talk show later on. It would give them the opportunity to maybe come on with a fair idea of what’s on the table and prepare themselves a bit.

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