Sep 232014

Rabbi Asher Meza says that as long as someone is Torah-observant and follow Halakha, they should not be rejected as Jewish.

Messianics are NOT HERETICS!

My question would be does he consider Karaism heretical? I suspect he does since he repeatedly refers to Halakha, but if Karaites are also not rejected from Judaism, then what of a Torah-observant non-Halakhic Messianic?

Either way, this is a big step for a Rabbi to say that Torah observance is what really matters, not whether someone believes YHVH had a body or is a unity of constituent parts.

  4 Responses to “Rabbi Meza: Messianics are not heretics!”

  1. I’m getting the impression that there are almost as many denominations of Judaism as there are of Christianity. I shouldn’t really be surprised, I suppose, seeing as apostasy came to the Jews before the church ever was. The question in my mind from this video is really about whether this guy takes the prophets as seriously as he does the law. He seems not to be able to accommodate the idea of a Messiah in any way, much less one who has already come in the flesh.

    The scripture is very clear on this matter.. “And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.” 1John 4:3 …

    That’s pretty strong stuff but it should be remembered that this Word was given to an apostle who was Jewish by extraction, so I can only conclude that this guy is speaking from an antichrist point of view which is governed by that principality. He cannot therefore be considered to be unbiased in what he is saying. He concludes that Messianics are Jews, whereas Messianics should surely conclude that they are neither Jew nor Gentile but one new man in Christ with all true believers.

    He cannot claim to be Torah observant as a Jew, in denial of the Messiah and without any atoning sacrifices (they are done away with anyway). This is where I see that torahic Judaism falls down on any basis, even theoretical, while there is no priesthood or sacrifices. It can only ever be a religious tradition by any criteria. Their talmudic traditions have overtaken any living relationship with God and no view of “relativity” can compensate for that.

    “Heresy” is actually the ability to believe what one chooses as a free agent. It is an innate capability in the makeup of men given by God. We do not believe the truth by compulsion or as automatons. It is the very thing that validates the faith by which we can only ever be acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For a Rabbi to truly say that the law is good is merely to acknowledge it as a capable tutor to convict us of our need of salvation, but does he really acknowledge this? I don’t see it.

    I beg to differ with the conclusion that Torah observance is what really counts. In this guy’s case, he needs to understand and heed the prophets. The present day form of Torah observance does not illustrate the ultimate atoning sacrifice for him to see. It has not been able to do so since Jerusalem was sacked in 70 AD. He might as well be the Pope in his deliberations about who or who not is a “heretic”.

    As Christians, we are often too apologetic about Judaism. It’s the people that God loves, not their belief systems. Their partways adherence to practises which are superseded by the atoning blood of Jesus are actually an affront to God, in cold hard terms, and have opened the door to the spirit of antichrist upon this people. How then can we pay heed to the views of Rabbis who find it unacceptable to acknowledge that the Messiah has come in the flesh? If such things were spoken from church pulpits, wouldn’t we shut our ears to such preachers? Get it in the perspective of the Word of God.

  2. The part of what he’s saying that got my attention, and what my question is about, is that I think he mostly says “doesn’t contradict Torah” and “observes Halakha”. IOW, he’s saying as long as they’re Talmudic, he doesn’t care if they believe in Jesus or not. I disagree with him on the “observes Halakha” part, because the Talmud, Halakha, and Takanot fail the Deu 4:2 test.

    The reason I posted it is that this guy is going to get blackballed by other rabbis for what he’s saying. They would take a fully-Halakhic person and say that belief in Jesus makes then essentially non-Judaic. I would argue that being Halakhic in the first place is what makes you non-Israel, given that most of Jesus’ head butts were against Halakha to start with with, so who cares if you’re Judaic anyway. But this guy has taken the first step, and I want to applaud it. The next step is to address Halakha itself and compare it to Deu 4:2.

    What drives me crazy is the non-distinction between Israel (people, not land), the land (“the land”, not “Israel”), Jews (a tribe of Israel, not synonymous with Israel), Judaism (an extension of Pharisaism that started the same time Christianity did, not an extension of the OT religion, which is actually Israel), and Torah (books of Moses, not the Talmud or “oral Torah”). I’ve honed my ears and eyes to watch for what the speaker or writer actually means when using these terms, and I tend to forget others aren’t making the distinction.

    I’m not apologetic about Judaism. They fail Deu 4:2 just like most of Christianity. I know you and I disagree on Torah observance, but I suspect that’s because we haven’t clearly defined our terms at this point. Stuart Wall is writing a book on this exact subject at the moment.

  3. I agree with what you’re saying about non-distinction and my view of Torah observance is not as definite as you might imagine. My differences with people over the matter are exactly that, between people because I do not allow my conscience to be driven by men.

    I would repeat my view concerning Messianics that, if they take the scriptural teaching, they should consider themselves to be neither Jew nor Gentile but one new man in Christ with all believers. In that respect, I appreciate Meza’s acceptance of them as kinsmen which is of itself a step towards accepting Christ himself but he needs to understand that it is not fully acceptance to preclude Jesus. Judging from what he is saying, he may well regard them as being in error, yet still brothers.

    In consideration of Judaism having been largely infiltrated by freemasonry via the Hebrew lodges, I would take the view that the command to “come out of her, my people” is as applicable to God fearing Jews as to any Roman Catholic or Protestant, etc, and wherever godly doctrine has been corrupted into paganism.

  4. One thing that he has correct in this video is that theology is not what saves us. In truth it is repentance and humility before God. Salvation is not an intellectual test, but the admission before God of our sinfulness and the faith that leads to bringing our lives in line with the Law of God, which is essentially spiritual life, the basics of which have been endowed upon our conscience. Then Yesua’s blood covers your sin even if you sincerely believe He lives on Mars. God looks on the heart, not on the mind.

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